2019 Tesla Model 3 Takes On The Hogback Challenge! Can The Radar Equipped Car Match Vision-Only?

Kyle and Jordan perform the usual Hogback challenge with our 2019 Tesla Model 3 Performance. Some had mentioned that in the newer updates Tesla limits or disables the radar function – let’s see if it makes a difference!

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  1. From what we’ve heard, on the newer software Tesla limits or disables the radar unit. Either way, a great comparison of a 2019 vs 2022 Tesla Model 3 in the Hogback!

  2. My 21 M3LR struggles with right hand curves when a turn lane opens up on the left. I'll be in the left of the two straight lanes and when the road curves right and there are people in the left turn lane, it thinks they're in my lane and the car always slams on the brakes. I wish some new update will allow Tesla's to figure this out.

  3. I can confirm that cars with FSD Beta (which I believe is Vision-only regardless of radar but I could be wrong) perform incredibly poorly (if at all) when the weather really goes south (i.e. hard rain).

  4. 100% agree that the new cars with wireless charging don't give us any options for phones that don't support wireless charging.. there's no longer a way to plug in the phone!!

  5. FSD Beta next! I use it daily. Pretty sure Beta would handle the entire loop from parking lot and back again w/o intervention.

  6. Stopping in the middle of the road is a fail. Prepare your anus.

  7. You should take it on the dragons tail in north carolina 192 turns in 20 miles

  8. There are two sides to the extra sensor – one is that it is extra redundancy and the other is that it is conflicting information.

    Also, radar is not vision in that it only tells you something is ahead of you (with good distance resolution and poor angle resolution) but it can't see what it is (is that a bridge, a car, a wall, the jersey barrier?) Radar can't read the road markings or road signs so it could never make the exit ramps with no markings work better as it is not something it has visibility to.

    The trick is with multiple inputs, what do you listen to? If it is the "most worrisome of either" then it may be safer but phantom braking would be worse since it would not just be due to false vision inputs but also false radar inputs. If you use it to do the "least worrisome" then you would get less phantom braking but it would be less safe as real issues visible in one but not the other would be ignored.

    Fundamentally, the statement from Tesla that vision is the way to go makes sense in that humans do drive with vision (no radar or lidar) and can do it well. The infrastructure is built with that in mind too. (Well we also use our ears – something Tesla has not addressed)

    Anyway, I would have been surprised if the radar car would have done better in your test since your test has mainly tricky elements that would be impactful to vision with radar only being a potential detriment. (At least in systems that are focused on safety and take the safest action based on the multiple inputs)

  9. typical Kyle Connor I don’t like that they make you use wireless charging 😂

  10. You should check out Dirty Tesla channel. He’s does auto pilot drives in his videos. He has done it in the various weather conditions and he has the full self driving beta in his car.

  11. Kyle, I just drove a Tesla like this 2,000 miles from GA to TX, for the Ford Lightning invitation DRIVE event, and back, and I'll let you know my impressions of the Model 3 Long-Range 'auto' driving features:
    – your experience with the 'final alert' and 'coming to a stop' has the ability to also allow you to CONTINUE driving, with the Auto Steering, but you have to put your foot to the pedal – don't let it bring you to a stop. While it will continue to flash and ding, it actually CONTINUES to steer for you, as long as you want to listen to that blaring alert.
    – I think the adaptive cruise system that 'sees' upcoming road striping, signage, and other vehicles NEEDS WORK.. Here's why: on several occasions, as I was allowing it to drive me at 75mph across interstate I10, it would SUDDENLY slam on brakes, in the MIDDLE OF NOWHERE, for NO REASON. That's just plain DANGEROUS on it's OWN! and not very endearing to your confidence that the 'eyes' are seeing everything as they really are. Whether it 'thinks' there is something in the road, when there is not, or if it thinks there is something ahead that is stopped in the road, which might have been an oncoming bridge underpass, or SHADOW, or something, it was just absolutely RIDICULOUS that it would suddenly, out of the blue, slam to a sudden stop, ON THE INTERSTATE! Now, THAT is scary.
    – I also think that the steering wheel is very 'jerky', meaning that when you want to 'take over' you have to muscle it enough, away from the system, then it 'jerks' the car to the side as you accomplish this: Dangerous again. I own a 22 Kia Sorento PHEV with all this SAME technology, and it does NONE of this. The steering is EASY to take over, and the car LETS you take it over, with PLEASURE, and NO jerking or sudden movement from the wheel direction. Also, with the Tesla, once you've 'taken control' of the steering, the 'auto steer' is then disabled until you 'double click' the right stalk again. Our Kia allows you to 'take control', and make any corrections, but the 'auto steer' stays active, in the background, and becomes active when you let go of the wheel, or are no longer providing any 'anti steer' against what the system is doing on it's own.
    – the Tesla technology is not reacting correctly to road striping, especially where 'merging' occurs, or 'off ramps' come into play. On many occasions, in the far right lane, the car would default to the 'stay right' position when an off ramp is coming and there is no longer striping at it's right side. The default, I believe, should be the LEFT side, since left ramps occur much less frequently. Also, I had a situation just today when a two-lane highway created a 'passing lane' – the car could NOT make up it's mind 'which' side it would take, and it literally 'swerved' violently between the two, before I could take control and then catch my breath as I'm sure the cars behind me thought someone was having a heart attack in a Tesla!
    – While the Tesla auto steering and adaptive cruise control has it's moments, and sometimes LONG timeframes of success, when you encounter such 'anomalies' you loose confidence that you can relax as much as you should be able to.

  12. It worries me that Tesla’ won’t be able to see and emergency brake in sudden fog conditions.

  13. Thanks for doing consistent detailed driver assistance reviews. These are great most reviews barely mention them. Would be great to see one for the ID.4 and another Mercedes model, maybe the 2022 C300 when released in the US.

  14. Not sure I agree on that assesment. If the car just does something dangerous that's -1 point, if it tells you to take over that's -2? It telling you is way better. If it does this early, that may even qualify for Level 3. Failing without message is the worst, IMHO.

  15. Hey Kyle just an FYI, I think you might’ve forgotten to put the Hogback Trials Spreadsheet link in the description of this video! Unless I’m missing something but I remember seeing it in the other ones as the very first link

  16. Whether it’s a bug splat, fog or many other variables; radar or other concealed technologies could be confirmation to the other for safety and consistency.

  17. I may be wrong, but I don't think that there will ever be a car, that will pull on the shoulder in this test. If it is good enough to recognize a viable shoulder, then it will most likely be good enough for lvl3+ autonomous driving. It needs to be able to recognize shoulder (ie in a 4 lane highway pulling to the first lane on the right can be more dangerous than staying in lane) and it must recognize that it's hard enough, wide enough, no cliff on the edge, no other obstacles there, etc…

  18. Soft snow tires combined with those ruts caused by semi trucks is big trouble. My model Y will pop out of AP within a few seconds.
    Thankfully they repave I-70 every couple of years

  19. This is probably already been said but Elon recently remarked on the removal of the sensor. There was too much conflicting data for the computer to sort through in real time and they emphasize the fact that humans use vision to assess their surroundings not radar so they basically eliminated a point of conflict or bottleneck in the system when is trying to resolve certain input conflictions. At any rate the radar device is disabled in your car now with the update as you probably already know.

  20. Honestly, I rather just keep my basic cruise control. I don't even like adaptive cruise control (ACC). I've had ACC prevent me from passing on the right on a multiplane road and brake too early. I can drive smoother without ACC type systems. GMs Super cruise seems more promising IMO. But I'm not interested in subscription services either.

  21. Sounds like a couple points difference is negligible considering the testing environment.

  22. Would love to see ID.4 dual-motor on Hogback Challenge. VW Travel Assist is prolific these days, and the added bonus of capacitive-touch steering response makes the system worthy of an HC run, imho.

  23. You can turn off the Auto-High Beams. They will only come back on if you disengage & re-engage AP. However, You can not disengage auto wipers while on AP

  24. Great review but LOL at your comments on the AP icon size.. “why can’t this tiny icon be a little bigger? I can barely tell the difference” as the entire screen practically turns blue from the lane lines also showing the system is engaged, much more screen real estate than the bigger icon being nitpicked. 😆

  25. Everybody uses radar or lider that does not mean that vision can not beat them. When Dojo Neural net algorithm gets perfected with real world edge cases training then lidar, radar are useless imo. How can you fall asleep now, it has a camera monitoring system.

  26. Tesla maybe was the first to put a radar but my 2018 Honda Clarity Plug In Hybrid has a radar. Tesla was stupid to take the radar out and I wouldn’t buy one because of that. I’m looking towards bluecruise or supercruise. Then there is Elon’s coziness with MAGA. Different subject but important to me.